A Conversation with Martin Laine
Listen to the full episode:
Time Codes:
4:10 Growing up in newly independent Estonia
5:00 Grim reality of communist repression and Siberian camps
8:43 Song festivals make for powerful nation-building
11:39 The importance of NATO and Knight Rider
14:08 English vs. Russian language
15:21 School lessons in civics and liberal democracy
17:17 Being part of something big in New York
18:12 ‘Dehumanization’ of immigrants in U.S.
19:30 American news makes daily headlines in Estonia
20:30 Trump’s first term and short-memory syndrome
21:06 Russiagate is not a hoax
23:20 No clear U.S. message on support for NATO, Baltics
25:29 Threat of war already changing life in Estonia
27:30 Where U.S. stands in global rankings
29:16 Russian interference and why it should matter to U.S.
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Telling it like it is
What does it mean to grow up together with your country? Ask Martin Laine, who was born just two years after his country, Estonia, declared independence from the Soviet Union in 1991. Eager to shed a half-decade of communist control, the country quickly transitioned into a robust liberal democracy – and nurtured citizens to be invested in keeping it safe. Democracy is more than just “showing up to elect an official every four years,” Martin says. “Democracy is something that’s constant, and has to be protected constantly.”
Not surprising, then, that Martin pursued a career as an investigative journalist, with a focus on Russian disinformation, illicit money flows, and influence campaigns. Estonia shares a border with Russia, hosts a large Russian minority, and was recently taunted by Russian jets in its airspace. As a country, it’s acutely aware of the threat Moscow poses to its sovereignty and safety. Martin, who was voted Estonia’s Journalist of the Year in 2024, worries America is not. (He recommends reading the U.S. Senate report on Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. elections as a start.)
Investigative reporting, paired with the experience of growing up in a newly independent country, has left Martin with strong convictions about what it takes to safeguard democracy. And with Russia’s war in Ukraine threatening to spill over into the EU, Martin also talks about whether his small border country can count on NATO security guarantees or U.S military support. Shifts in the U.S. stance on NATO and the ongoing erosion of American democracy are front-page news in Estonia on an almost daily basis.
But as much as present-day concerns dominate Martin’s work, much of his identity is forged by lessons from the past. His grandfather survived childhood in a Siberian prison camp that killed his father and dominates his memories even today. Estonian traditional music plays a fundamental role as well. As early as third or fourth grade, Martin participated in the country’s annual song festival, which gathers tens of thousands of Estonians to perform open-air renditions of national folk songs – an experience Martin describes as central to his sense of national identity and pride. (Do yourself a favor and hear what it sounds like when 30,000 people sing “Flying Toward the Beehive,” an anthem to returning home, at this year’s Iseoma song and dance festival in Tallinn. It will blow you away.)
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